In the view of some historians, the Pope's recent apology to enraged Muslims over use of a quote written by Manuel II Palaeologus in 1391 bears a striking similarity with a similar apology delivered more than 600 years ago by Manuel II Palaeologus himself to offended Muslim armies after they ransacked his Christian country, converted its citizens to Islam, and beheaded or enslaved those who resisted the forced conversions. In a public speech made shortly after the quote first appeared in Muslim press, Manuel II apologized to the Islamic community that besieged his controversial "Byzantine entity," the term used to describe the Greek-speaking Roman Empire of the Middle Ages, centered at its capital in Constantinople (now Istanbul).
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Muslim clerics respond :
Muqtada Al-Sadr: Three words: Reason my donkey!
Performing Arts trainer and religious scholar: To say that God cannot act irrationally is an insult to every irrational Muslim on earth and a blatant attempt to stifle unreasonable criticism.
Mohammed Mahdi Akef, Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt: It was very unreasonable of this infidel dog to expect a reasonable dialogue with a real Islamic scholar like me. Do you see the irony?
Spokesperson for "United Mosques For Peace & Uniformity": I would like to find that "Islamic scholar" with whom he was debating and rape his entire family while having his body eaten by dogs in the same room.
"I hope," said Manuel II, who was also known as a writer, poet and theologian, "that my apology will appease hearts and clarify the true meaning of my address, which was an invitation to a rational dialogue, with great mutual respect."
"In my seventh dialogue with an imaginary Islamic scholar," the learned Byzantine ruler continued as he evaded occasional critical arrows flying from the surrounding hordes, "I referred to the Koran's teachings about spreading the faith by the sword. And this, I said, could not come from God because violence is the opposite of reason, and God himself cannot act contrary to reason. But your passionate criticism has proven to me that there is, indeed, nothing evil or inhuman in spreading the faith by violent means, and that beheadings of non-believers and terrorizing communities in the name of religion are all signs of perfectly rational behavior and wonderful mental health."
"Taking quotes out of context is similarly a magnificent example of a reasonable dialogue from which we all should learn," Manuel II said, adding that the recent slaughters of thousands of his Christian subjects by the Muslim sword were the result of his own blindness to the true peaceful nature of Islam. "We can only hope that their sacrifice will help build real fraternity among us," he said, "so that all Muslims and Christians can learn to live with reciprocal respect of everyone's religious convictions, and that some 600 years from now conflicts and misunderstandings like this would be a thing of the past."
A group of Muslim scholars demonstrate passages in the Koran showing that the "Byzantine entity" has no right to exist.
But many Muslims perceived the Emperor's emphasis on "rational" as unhelpful. Demonstrations, threats and calls to violence continued throughout the Muslim world, as protesters demanded that the Byzantine ruler be punished by strict Islamic Shariah law for implying that Muslims cannot respond to criticism rationally, but only with demonstrations, threats and violence.
Angry Ottoman activists burned a number of ancient Greek churches and publicly beheaded residents in several Byzantine towns, converting the less stubborn survivors to Islam to the cheers and applause of prominent Muslim clerics who gathered for the occasion. European leaders, who had recently declined Manuel's personal pleas for help against the invading Muslim armies, responded to the controversy by warning the Byzantine ruler about the danger of confusing Islam with a militant movement that masks itself as religion.
"We must avoid everything that increases tension between people or religions," said the King of France in an open letter to Manuel II (cc the Ottoman Court). "Islam is a religion of peace, and there is a need to be on constant alert against marginal provocations that are meant to turn this issue into a global crisis."
In conclusion, it should be noted that the "Byzantine entity" lasted for only 62 more years, falling to the Ottoman Turks in 1453, thus ending the 1100-year-old controversy about its right to exist next to Muslim lands. Its capital Constantinople was renamed into Istanbul, its churches were converted to mosques, the country changed its name to Turkey, and its residents lost their language, cultural identity, and religion to Muslim Turks. No wonder that today some of the strongest criticism of the Pope's use of the Byzantine quote is coming from Turkey - whose people suffered the most from bigoted remarks of the erstwhile Byzantine ruler.
Watch our video that puts old Manuel's quote back into its original context
Spokesperson for "United Mosques For Peace & Uniformity":
I would like to find that "Islamic scholar" with whom he was debating and rape his entire family while having his body eaten by dogs in the same room.
Wouldn't that kind of kill the entire mood? How would he be able to keep going with body parts flying everywhere? I'd certainly get distracted. And what would happen when the dogs were finished?
"Performing Arts trainer and religious scholar:
To say that God cannot act irrationally is an insult to every irrational Muslim on earth and a blatant attempt to stifle unreasonable criticism."
These people continually astound me, how they survive and draw in the masses confounds me.
Yes, and just imagine how many Byzantine lives could have been saved (not that we care, they are Chr***ians) if they just openly surrendered themselves to the "religion of peace" instead of defending themselves for the sake of culture, faith and eck, "prosperity". Sickening, absolutely sickening. Makes me more nauseated to think of that then the concept of game shows, and I HATE GAME SHOWS!
The Turks are among the most upset by the Pope's reference of Byzantine. Especially that it's from the period when it was in its last throes fighting the Muslim aggression. Could it be because they now live in what used to be Byzantine? How would you like if someone reminded you that you live on a land stolen from the indigenous people? Oh, of course, we in Amerika know all about it! We can't be reminded of it often enough! And our progressive vigor only grows every time we're reminded of it.
But there's a difference - the people conquered by the Muslim Turks were not hunters-gatherers walking around in loin cloths. They were, perhaps, the most culturally advanced civilization of the time, heirs to both Greece and Rome. The Turks forcefully converted the population to Islam - and continued to exterminate the unconverted ones up until 1915. Now, if they let the Pope's veiled hint at that fact go unpunished, what terrible thing he can do next - quote survivors of the genocide of Armenian, Greek, and Assyrian Christians committed by Muslims of the Ottoman Empire? That would really be insulting to Islam!
Byzantine is important because it covered the entire Mediterranean Middle East immediately before the Muslim conquests - including what's now Israel and Palestine. It's why there are so many Christian enclaves remaining in what's known as the "original" Muslim land. With all the wars and coups and conspiracies and changes of power, Byzantine was still a benevolent empire that benefited its citizens, promoting the growth of culture and commerce. The "achievements" of the Muslim civilization are mostly the things they had found already in place in the conquered lands of the Eastern Roman Empire (as well as Assyria, Persia, etc). I bet you never hear about that inconvenient fact. The general impression is that the Muslims had originally expanded over some desert shitholes, so who cares? In fact, those shitholes of today used to be advanced cultures that didn't survive the caring indulgence of the religion of peace and submission. Just ask any surviving Byzantine!
These people continually astound me, how they survive and draw in the masses confounds me.
Really?? Look at the liberals; they must have learned from Islamic extremists...hmmm, I wonder if competing mosques count dead people as part of their congregation to gain stature amongst the rival mosques...something they can learn from the libs, eh?
Comrades!
Least we forget - the one common element causing all problems is the sulfur-spewing GW Rove-Bushler and the flea-infested lap dog capitalist-USA.
Now - when our global leaders Hugo and Makhmood have arrived to finally unite with Jimmi, Billary, Howie, George, Cindee, DNC, move on dot org, world-workers party, academia and all of us to fight from within -we must depart the latte-cafe and ivory towers to slay the the Great Shaytan once and for all and usher in the dawning of the global dry-flush-toilete progressive-submissive islamo ham-free village!
Vere Vill awl zee Christ fall-oh -ehrs Goh tewe vonce zee great Mo-Hom -id re- turhnts froome weerhh he izz ????And Behtty Vee like to halv Dogs heer aht Gulag vonce zay r Doone with Christ Pig fall-oh -urs zee mood vill be festeeve...No Not lihke JOn KeRRi Cell-ee Bey -Shun!!!
Before any dogs are sent, I will need a written document stating what the dogs will be used for, a formally signed agreement from PETA saying that no dogs shall be harmed, and a 39 page essay on basic house training to be sure that you can be responsible for your "guest".
(Sorry, social policy)
Howse comes, when human representation in art is verboten in Islam, because it is like a totally graven image and stuff...but they have cartoons which, you know like portray humans and people and shit like that? Just sayin.
Muhammad's sword Pope Benedict XVI in the service of George W. Bush
By Uri Avner
09/24/06 "Information Clearing House" -- -- Since the days when Roman emperors threw Christians to the lions, the relations between the emperors and the heads of the church have undergone many changes.
http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en
Uri Avnery is an Israeli author and activist. He is the head of the Israeli peace movement, "Gush Shalom".
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Comrade Freedom (if that's your real condition)
The Party censor-on-duty has shortened the posted article to 2% of its original length. In the future, if you want to post someone else's story, please post one or two paragraphs and a link to the source.
This story and our video are featured in today's American Thinker, which is bringing us quite a few new visitors.
http://americanthinker.com/comments.php?comments_id=6222
Quote
Byzantium, Pope Benedict XVI and YouTube
The Pope knew exactly what he was doing in his address at Regensburg. I am becoming more and more convinced that the pontiff is three or four steps ahead of the rest of us in his thinking about the way that public consciousness is shaped. I even wonder if His Holiness has surfed YouTube.
Lest you think I jest, this little video from The People’s Cube is well worth viewing [ ... ]
Most people grasp complicated history much better when presented in audiovisual format than in words. The People’s Cube shows how it is done.
The Pope knew that controversy over his remarks would call more attention to the underlying phenomenon. I think he also knew that in this new age of internet-powered information production and distribution, the underlying facts – the context within which he spoke – would become gradually known and understood by his flock, and by the world public.
So watch the video. Please. Maybe even send it to a friend or two.
Hat tips: Average Gay Joe and Larwyn
Thomas Lifson 9 27 06
You know, this Thomas Lifson may just be right about that. The Pope knew!
As of today, the video from this post on YouTube has received:
Views: 18,228
Comments: 248
Favorited: 122 times
One of the latest comments has led me to this discovery which may be useful to anyone who would like to research this issue further.
The Blight of Asia By G. Horton The long out of print, well known book "THE BLIGHT OF ASIA" was published in 1926 in the USA and written by the American General Consul in Smyrna in 1922, who was an eye witness of all the perils of that city and of its Christian inhabitants. This testimony comes from a high-ranking American diplomat, who served in this capacity in that part of the world for about 30 years, and was therefore a knowledgeable and impartial source.
http://www.hri.org/docs/Horton/
I found it as I tried to google this quote:
Prime Minister William Gladstone, on the subject of the Ottoman Turks, wrote
Wherever they went a broad line of blood marked their track behind them, and, as far as their dominion reached, civilization disappeared from view.
The Party gives you blanket permission to browse that site free of charge for more dynamic maps as long as you intend to use them for proper indoctrination.
I see we shall have to have the maps altered to project after the 2008 election which shall show the empire of our MTE. Perhaps we shall just go from BCE to CE to MTE.
As Istanbul's municipality and governorship celebrate the 555th anniversary of the conquest of Istanbul, academics believe the significance attached to the celebrations has been increasing over the last decades due to a rise in Islamist sentiments in Turkey.
H/T to the Politea blog that has a relevant compilation of sources on this.
The uncontested absurdities of today are the accepted slogans
of tomorrow. They come to be accepted by degrees, by precedent,
by implication, by erosion, by default, by dint of constant
pressure on one side and constant retreat on the other -
until the day when they are suddenly declared to be the country's
official ideology. ~ Ayn Rand
Write down this number and report to your Kommissar at the nearest railroad station.
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San Andreas Fault in California preemptively renamed George Bush's Fault Media Matters editor blows self up over Limbaugh's 'bomber' remark End of Ramadan brings new rioting season to France Harry Reid bangs shoe on table: "We will bury you!" Dutch follow Ahmadinejad's lead, declare "there are no dykes in Holland" Ahmadinejad to Amerika: "Don't tase me, bro!" Bomb Girl and Taser Boy sell rights to their characters to Marvel Comics Cindy Sheehan hires Bomb Girl and Taser Boy as image consultants CBS stands by firing of Dan Rather: "He couldn't tell our logo from a hole in the ground" Jessie Jackson on Obama: "too White." Obama on Jackson: "I'm a smoke dat biatch if I see him"
Tasered victim at John Kerry's speech to receive Purple Heart Mugabe blames Zimbabwe's meltdown on Global Warming To stomp out possible confusion, MSM changes spelling of Obama to Ubama Craving acceptance from liberals, General Petraeus gains 300lbs and debuts report at Cannes. George Soros stops funding Democrats, converts to Islam Edwards: 41% of American children don't have lawyers John Edwards proposes "single payer" trial lawyer insurance for all, mandatory pre-jurisprudence care Illegal aliens kill people Americans won't killDemocrats select 2008 presidential slogan: "Death to America" Larry "Happy Feet" Craig uses Michael Flatley's Riverdance defense "Americans Coming Together" admit they had timing issues Presbyterian clergy issue fatwah calling for Pope's deathNew Jersey teen cracked iPhone with his face Vick awaits doggie-style welcome in prison Rock star behaves like rap star: huge media outcry China's recall of defective Daily Kos bloggers causes suicides among Democrat strategists Al Gore to recall the Internet Media declares September National Bridge Awareness Month First New Orleans, now Minnesota: Anderson Cooper travels up the Mississippi without a paddle Ray Nagin pledges to build a chocolate bridge instead William Jefferson spotted under collapsed bridge retrieving mystery package Cannibalism, rape, looting, republicanism rampant in Minneapolis Lindsay Lohan to enter astronaut training program Nigeria's plan to nationalize local spam industry sparks massive riots in Lagos
Democrat Congress's two major victories: minimum wage increase and al-Qaeda's restored operating capability London Mayor Livingston mandates Sharia law at nightclubs to prevent further bombings Taliban spokesman blames media bias as civilian deaths from US air strikes grab headlines: "Taliban has murdered thousands of civilians and we can't even get mentioned on Countdown with Olbermann. What gives?"Back alley massage parlors now offering "better ending than Sopranos" Bush to close Gitmo, detainees released into Mexican custody to be put on fast track to US citizenship
Study: Dan rather still unable to tell the difference between Paris Hilton and Katie Couric Civil war in Gaza: if it's not in Iraq why report it? US media increasingly impatient at lack of civil war in IraqUS Embassy in Syria warns of sex attacks. So how long will Bill be visiting for? Delighted Dems: "The surge has failed!"MSM spokesman: There are no civil war clashes in Gaza! Palestinians still wonder why their real civil war can't knock Iraq "civil war" off the front page As Albanians welcome Bush and show love for USA, NY Times offers them free subscriptions to "solve problem" Paris gets out of jail faster than an illegal immigrant Socialist utopia takes foothold in Venezuela as water cannons salute victory Pelosi: "I've seen climate change." John Fogerty of CCR also wants to know "if she's ever seen rain" Democrats call for troop withdrawal from Jersey Harry Reid: "Troop presence in New Jersey creating more terrorists" French riot police deployed as open minded, tolerant socialists expected to react to election results Progressives concerned with Sarkozy's "extremist agenda " of rule of law and assimilation to French culture Dems: War needs deadline; only social policies can run indefinitely Sheryl Crow to wipe out global warming one butt at a time Va Tech lessons for MSM: must ban guns, rich kids ACLU calls for calm, fears backlash against innocent gun owners: 'all gun owners aren't terrorists' Liberal groups join gun tolerance and awareness workshops Gun owners converting to Islam in droves to ward off profiling Sharp jump in number of 'non-decapitated' babies following Supreme Court decision Sharpton makes a list of 57 Don Imus sympathizers on public airwaves Al Gore and John Kerry agree: people who live in greenhouses should not expel noxious gases Al Gore hired by K-Y to pro- mote Global Warming Jelly New study shows Earth's 'fever' contagious; Mars asks planets to kick 'Greenhouse Mary' out of solar system Schumer demands Karl Rove be indicted on 1976 parking ticket Al Qaeda reacts to Schumer attack: "Thank Allah we're not Republicans!" Dems: Khalid Sheik Mohamed just watched too many episodes of 24 and made all that stuff in his confession up Fitzgerald to prosecute Ann Coulter for disclosing identity of presidential candidate John Edwards Following Scooter Libby success, media demands journalists be included on all future juries Kent State professor calls for bin Laden victory: time to bring in the National Guard again? Hollywood to America: our moral issues are better than your moral issues Obama promises to "purge himself" if he loses to Hillary to spare the public a lengthy trial House vote: Insurgents react with non-binding IED Democrat leaders don't support terrorists but they support their mission North Korea agrees to nuclear disarmament, media hails Madeleine Albright Bush: I support Democrat majority - but not their mission Is it time for Pinochet yet? Helen Thomas to be inducted into Museum of Natural History