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Liberal Outrage: A Pro-McCain March In Manhattan

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#1: Liberal Outrage: A Pro-McCain March In Manhattan Author: Red Square, Location: Karl Marx Treatment Center

Posted: 9/23/2008, 11:54 pm
—

A group of McCain-Palin supporters dare to march through the Upper West Side - and are met with hatred and rage for being infidels in the heart of liberal Mecca. Republicans are as out of place there as elephants at a donkey show. Area intellectuals jeer them well - just as they had been taught to do. FACT: The number of middle fingers in the "progressive" crowd is directly proportional to the number of PhD degrees in the ten-block radius.

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQalRPQ8stI

~
Special thanks to our friend Red Squirrel for filming it at the McCain-Palin march on the Upper West Side in Manhattan this Sunday, September 21. Musical credits - When Johnny Comes Marching Home performed by US Military Academy Band.

These useful intellectuals turn out to be not as peaceful, inclusive, and open-minded as they claim to be. Take a peek into the glorious progressive world they want us to live in - they display zero tolerance to the opposing viewpoint, yet they want to impose their rule over our lives. Fugedaboudit! Republicans should be lucky New York doesn't have a Colosseum with lions.

Some of the occasional cheering passers-by are either out-of-towners, or foreigners - or could they actually be local Republicans who managed to survive the uncompromising "liberal" bullying? Say, what is a compromise between an open hand and the middle finger?

A bumpkin from flyover country might think that New Yorkers were booing al-Qaeda that's bent on destroying their city. FACT: Islamic radicals would be more welcome on the Upper West Side than American patriots. The "liberals" always extend their sympathy for being bullied and rejected - not to American patriots, but to this country's enemies.

"Liberal" elites believe that all ideologies are morally equal, except the one that supports capitalism and individual liberties - the only ideology that makes their lavish lifestyles possible. And so they're driving it out of town, tarred and feathered. Republicans in New York: less equal than others.

When leftist politicians are promising you to bridge the divide, they are "selling you a bridge."

The leftist idea of unity is, and always has been, THE ELIMINATION OF DISSENT.
__________________________________________________________
Also posted on EyeBlast.TV - http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?RsrcID=36428

Last edited by Red Square on 9/27/2008, 7:38 pm; edited 3 times in total

#2: Author: Premier Betty, Location: People's Glorious Demokratssky Republik Kalivornja.

Posted: 9/24/2008, 1:00 am
—
They must be eliminated....

#3: Author: KonvertedKomrade,

Posted: 9/24/2008, 7:45 am
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They must be issued shovels.

#4: Author: Keith Overbite,

Posted: 9/24/2008, 8:26 am
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I [heart] NY!

#5: Author: Sheik Abu Moham, Location: The Farthest Mosque

Posted: 9/24/2008, 8:53 am
    —
What is this... "Islamic radicals" you speak of?  This is a lie of Bush the great Satan.

Their is only one Islam.

You see......Islam is the true religion given from Allah to abrogate all others.  It is our Islamic duty to harass the non-Believers to Change their religion or they simply have no Hope.  Much like those liberals in this film.

Of course these ~~infidels~~ people would welcome my brothers.  We have the same goal you see.  Amerika must be destroyed at all costs.  Freedom is terrorism and behead those that think differently.

Our infiltration into academia, politics and media is truly effective.  Although, I believe we need to include 'Rage 101' as a required course.  A single middle finger is simply not sufficient.  I'm thinking Chomsky or Churchill could instruct.

DEATH TO AMERIKA!!!!!!!

Last edited by Sheik Abu Moham on 9/25/2008, 9:35 am; edited 2 times in total

#6: Author: Che Gourmet, Location: GULAG OF NY

Posted: 9/24/2008, 9:11 am
—
Damn that Sarah Palin! Boy she looks chunky! Still taking off the "baby fat" I see!
That's what she gets for firing me.....She has a penchant for double stuff oreos--
I would have had her looking trim and ready for the glorious fight.....I just know she's not eating her veggies...oh well, I shouldn't care...I'm going to the indoctrination center soon...and then Walaah! I wont't have to think anymore.

#7: Author: Ivan Jerkinov, Location: Florida

Posted: 9/24/2008, 10:37 am
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Palin's feet are too big to be real Russian woman. Real Rusky women have small feet so to stand closer to sink.

Dasvidania!

#8: Author: Ivan Jerkinov, Location: Florida

Posted: 9/24/2008, 11:11 am
—

Premier Betty wrote

They must be eliminated....

Can I call you "Betty"?

#9: Re: Liberal Outrage: A Pro-McCain March In Manhattan Author: Ted State, Location: The peoples Republik Of Mass

Posted: 9/24/2008, 11:34 am
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Special thanks to our friend Red Squirrel for filming it at the McCain-Palin march on the Upper West Side in Manhattan this Sunday, September 21.

I worked in NYC for 10 years and Comrade Squirrel is quite brave. I am suprized nobody attacked you. Isn't it amazing to see how "tolerant" the left is? If Obama supporters marched through a Red State city and this happened it would be the lead story on all the news channels as "Evil Bible toting and gun clinging racists attack Obama March." Amazing.

#10: Author: Premier Betty, Location: People's Glorious Demokratssky Republik Kalivornja.

Posted: 9/24/2008, 2:16 pm
—

Ivan Jerkinov wrote

Can I call you "Betty"?

Gentlemen, from this day forward you shall all refer to me by the name Betty.

Nyaha! Naahhhaaahaaaa!!

#11: Author: peetar,

Posted: 9/24/2008, 4:10 pm
—
This is hilarious!

#12: Author: Cradle to Grave Marxist, Location: Norte Texas

Posted: 9/24/2008, 5:19 pm
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Very interesting...

...How did our Comrade-Mayor allow these Holdovers the freedom to march? Someone make sure he still has his shovel.

(I am very glad that I left the Northeast for fly-over country when I retired from the Navy.)

Comrade “Pul”
Tiglath-Pileser III
Over 2753 Years of Organizing Communities

#13: upper west side rats of stalin Author: angmannyc,

Posted: 9/24/2008, 6:40 pm
—
upper west side socialist rats .they should all be in prison for poison they dispersed through the decades starting way back with mark and phill rudd and the red mob along with the mamas and the papas ,poison that spread through the public school to our childred who went on to do drugs that they glorified while their kid went to yachivas and private schools and the like .how about their best friend dope dealing john phillips selling dope on top of the red barron on 71rst st and columbus ave .hope they all choke and die homeless.

#14: Author: Komrade Murffovich, Location: MiniTruth Mass Media Broadcast Headquarters

Posted: 9/24/2008, 6:44 pm
—
Karacter Off

Does anyone else find it so amusing that these leftists who hate all things Republican (and decent, might I add) are becoming the very thing that they rail so vehemently against? They refer to Conservatives and Republicans as Nazi's and Brownshirts, Fascists, Criminals, Evil, Stupid, Misguided, etc.

Where do they think that Obama's intentions have them headed? The land of ~~f*cking~~ sunshine and lollipops? Boy are these people in for a rude awakening when the knock on the door comes in the middle of the night.

My apologies- I didn't mean to use the word "boy" or talk about "those people" in a manner that might imply a hidden meaning of some type. I will choose my words more carefully next time I speak of those who rally around the "Community Organizer".

Karacter ON

Also Komrades, a coin has been struck with the glorious image of Lord Obama the Most Merciful! The spies have obtained these images:
http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2008/09/obama_coins_hav.html#comments

Even before he is surely ~~*cough cough bull-shit*~~ elected he has chosen to bless us all with his divine image! I do not know if they will be rationed to us proles or not, but they will sit nicely on the mantle with the Stalin, Lenin, and other dictator coins.

Is there not one with your image on it, General Mousey-Tongue?

#15: Author: Kommissar Vega,

Posted: 9/24/2008, 7:22 pm
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Premier Betty wrote

Ivan Jerkinov wrote

Can I call you "Betty"?

Gentlemen, from this day forward you shall all refer to me by the name Betty.

Nyaha! Naahhhaaahaaaa!!

What is this nonsense of owls and bungee cords? Gentlemen, there are Republicans out there marching in the name of free enterprise. Is that the kind of world you want your children to live in?

#16: Author: Commissar Theocritus, Location: Texas

Posted: 9/24/2008, 8:13 pm
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Free enterprise and competition? Hell, no! I vote for cronyism, nepotism, glad-handing and bribery any old day. I'm a Democrat, remember.

#17: Author: Commissar_Elliott, Location: Republik of Minnesota, where nothing is legal. We live in a secret campsite.

Posted: 9/24/2008, 8:31 pm
—

Premier Betty wrote

They must be eliminated....

swiftly and very noisy.

(off)
Which ones Wink

#18: NEW YORK, NEW YORK Author: RedRum,

Posted: 9/24/2008, 9:09 pm
—
Time for new and appropos Kremlin Karaoke:

Start Spreading the News
I'm marching today
I've got to stop"hate speech" today
In Ol' New York

My Berkenstock shoes
Are coming your way
They're gonna stomp dissent away
In our New York

You're gonna wake up in a place where the guards never sleep
And find you're under the jail
on top of a heap
seeing no Sun
Begging for gruel . . .

EVERYBODY NOW!

#19: Author: Reiuxcat, Location: Georgia

Posted: 9/24/2008, 9:15 pm
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It is only too good to see the proletariat inflitrating the capitalist mecca of Manhatten, an island stolen from the natives of a verdant and pristine land. And then shaming the greedy capitalists.

(The extension of the middle digit is an old ancient native american hand sign that soon, the ignorant will indeed receive their just rewards.)

#20: Zombie Power Author: Comrade_Tovarich, Location: Fogged Bottom, DC

Posted: 9/24/2008, 10:54 pm
—

Commissar Theocritus wrote

Free enterprise and competition? Hell, no! I vote for cronyism, nepotism, glad-handing and bribery any old day. I'm a Democrat, remember.

#21: Author: Comrade_Tovarich, Location: Fogged Bottom, DC

Posted: 9/24/2008, 10:57 pm
—
Argh, I can never add content to quotes!

I wanted to add to Commissar Theocritus' glorious statement that wwe Democrats also have the amazing ability to vote from beyond the grave. Vote the Party for Living and Undead Workers' Utopias!

#22: Author: Commissar Theocritus, Location: Texas

Posted: 9/24/2008, 10:59 pm
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The leader of the undead, our necro-proxy voters, is of course Senator Byrd. First went his honor, as a Grand Kleagle of the KKK, then his brain, and now he totters, waving at us, feebly, from the other side, but cheering on the minions of necro-proxy voters. Daley is proud.

#23: Author: Comrade_Tovarich, Location: Fogged Bottom, DC

Posted: 9/24/2008, 11:21 pm
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Comrades,

There is some relevant progressive material being offered to be bailed out by Hank Greenberg or Congress.

#24: Author: Politilemologist, Location: Utah ...a place most "progressives" would love to see burn

Posted: 9/25/2008, 1:35 am
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I really loved this video. All hail Comrade Red Squirrel!

[On a serious note though: can't say it was the exact same situation, but I've been in a similar situation, just ridiculed like crazy in public for my views similar to that...not the best experience. That took some cajones, so serious props to all of you that did that!]

I made a picture dedicated to Red Squirrel's march that coincides with my political lemming studies:

(click to enlarge)

I also did an article further discussing the scientific findings from this march in Upper West Side.

Last edited by Politilemologist on 9/25/2008, 7:30 pm; edited 3 times in total

#25: Author: Commissar_Elliott, Location: Republik of Minnesota, where nothing is legal. We live in a secret campsite.

Posted: 9/25/2008, 10:27 am
—
(off)
Poor elephant, and nice flag.

#26: Author: Mother of Revolutionaries,

Posted: 9/25/2008, 12:44 pm
    —
Indeed all Amerikans can be proud of the comrades in New York City.  Constantly vigilant to any threat against their glorious workers paradise, our brothers and sisters in their humble fewness stand proud against the evil warmongering oppressors.

How brave they must be, to express opinions so frowned on by their masters!  Long live the revolution! Hope and spare change for all the huddled poor on the lonely streets!

#27: Author: Stalin for Time,

Posted: 9/25/2008, 1:25 pm
—

Quote

The extension of the middle digit is an old ancient native american hand sign...

I thought it stood for the presenter's age, IQ, or number of un-married parents.

#28: Author: Sheik Abu Moham, Location: The Farthest Mosque

Posted: 9/25/2008, 4:00 pm
—
Ahh....... The sight of the fuehrer at this moment.

glorious.....GLORRIOUSSS!!!!!!

Last edited by Sheik Abu Moham on 9/27/2008, 10:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

#29: Author: Comrade Commie Pinko, Location: Tennessee, USA

Posted: 9/25/2008, 5:14 pm
    —
Good news, Comrades!  I infiltrated a local Lions Club and the speaker was a former Chinese News Reporter discussing the differences between Amerikkka and Communist China.  He said that China is controlled by a single party whose goal is to govern every aspect of its citizen's lives, the media is made up almost exclusively of Party members who lie on behalf of the Party and report what the Party tells them to, the teachers are all Party members who indoctrinate students to love socialism and hate American Imperialism, and the Party is opposed to religion having any power in its society.

Sound like any country or party you know?  Our glorious goals are nearly achieved!

#30: Author: womo,

Posted: 9/25/2008, 5:22 pm
—

Commissar Theocritus wrote

Free enterprise and competition? Hell, no! I vote for cronyism, nepotism, glad-handing and bribery any old day. I'm a Democrat, remember.

No, you're a Master of the Universe.

#31: Re: upper west side rats of stalin Author: Guest,

Posted: 9/25/2008, 5:54 pm
—

angmannyc wrote

upper west side socialist rats .they should all be in prison for poison they dispersed through the decades starting way back with mark and phill rudd and the red mob along with the mamas and the papas ,poison that spread through the public school to our childred who went on to do drugs that they glorified while their kid went to yachivas and private schools and the like .how about their best friend dope dealing john phillips selling dope on top of the red barron on 71rst st and columbus ave .hope they all choke and die homeless.

It's funny how you guys sound more like Stalinists when you're writing out of character than when you're writing in character. But I'm sorry for interrupting... Let's get back to more hilarious satire about how some Democrat who's about as far to the left as Richard Nixon wants to transform our great nation into a Marxist dystopia.

#32: Author: Reiuxcat, Location: Georgia

Posted: 9/25/2008, 6:49 pm
—

Stalin for Time wrote

Quote

The extension of the middle digit is an old ancient native american hand sign...

I thought it stood for the presenter's age, IQ, or number of un-married parents.

A thousand pardons comrade. I used an outdated and outlawed history book.

I will now report for further reeducation. Where's my shovel?

#33: Author: Commissar Theocritus, Location: Texas

Posted: 9/25/2008, 7:09 pm
—

Guest Troll wrote

Uh yeah. Just side-splitting.

Why don't you study some history about Nixon? He proposed the first socialized medicine. Hardly a right-winger. And if you think that BHO is not a leftist, by inclination, training and association, then you've been inspecting your dingleberries.

Question. Why is it that the lefties seldom have a name, even a nom-de-plume? Is it the solipsistic view that they speak for the ages and therefore don't need one, dispensing wisdom from the redoubts of their closeted minds? Is it a paucity of imagination?

It seems to be nothing more than cheap sneering, and not in satire. Which is in its own way rather sad.

#34: Author: Politilemologist, Location: Utah ...a place most "progressives" would love to see burn

Posted: 9/25/2008, 7:27 pm
—

Comrade_Elliott wrote

(off)
Poor elephant, and nice flag.

Thanks!

It's the liberal lemming flag:

#35: Author: S.A.F. Marshal Pravda, Location: People's State of TexUS

Posted: 9/25/2008, 8:39 pm
—

Commissar Theocritus wrote

Guest Troll wrote

Did Nixon not champion the EPA and OSHA also?? HARDLY a right-winger, new guy. He also ~~lost~~ got USA out of the Vietnam War. A war Kennedy ratcheted up and Johnson wallowed in...are they right-wingers, too?

#36: Author: Cradle to Grave Marxist, Location: Norte Texas

Posted: 9/25/2008, 9:27 pm
—

Commissar Theocritus wrote

Why don't you study some history about Nixon? He proposed the first socialized medicine. Hardly a right-winger.

I remember the pre-revisionist history about Richard “We Are All Keynesians Now” Nixon.  I include some old-facts for a comparison of how to spin the facts—please don’t send me in for re-education.

Monday, Sep. 20, 1971

“Last week Richard Nixon was the Chief Executive, urging the reconvening Congress to act on his New Economic Policy, meeting with labor leaders to help plan what wage and price restraints will follow the end of the 90-day freeze—which the President said he would not extend beyond Nov. 14.”

(Wage and price controls aren’t very conservative actions.  But we will call Tricky Dick a right-winger and ignore his glorious efforts to expand socialism.)

“Since he has largely pre-empted Democratic proposals for aiding the economy, the Democratic-controlled Congress is likely to give him most of what he wants, although perhaps not quite the way he wants it.”

(Actually, Dick and the Dems really gave it to the workers: frozen wages, shortages of price-frozen goods, more new-and-expensive goods.)

“In his Labor Day radio speech, he extolled the work ethic, which is so ‘ingrained in the American character,’ he insisted, ‘that most of us consider it immoral to be lazy or slothful.’ The speech contained much muddled logic.”

(I remember the extra shovels that the Party passed out to my parents that year; they were holdovers from the pre-socialist era.)

“Since congressional Democrats could not fault the basic outline of the President's program, they were…counting on House Ways and Means Chairman Wilbur Mills to salvage something for them. …Mills indicated that he was largely sympathetic to the President's plans. ‘You can't criticize a fellow who's trying to talk your own language,’ he conceded.”

(Richard Milhous Nixon did more than just talk the talk.  We are all Keynesians now as RMN continued to expand FDR’s socialist programs.)

Here is a shot of The People's Tonic:  Vodka helps correct the memory.

Dosvidanya Amerikanyets.

Comrade “Pul”
Tiglath-Pileser III
Over 2753 Years of Organizing Communities

#37: Author: Guardian of Pravda, Location: Alabama

Posted: 9/25/2008, 10:25 pm
—

Sheik Abu Moham wrote

Ahh....... The sight of the fuehrer at this moment.

Make a good Time cover.

Looks like Mussolini. Capo de Capo.
Watching that brought a tear to my eye , ah for the good old days when that could have become a full blown brawl or riot allowing me to swing my 'Stick of oppression' and make mental attitude adjustments on a few wrong thinkers. Ah but those days are gone, now we mace them.

#38: Author: Guardian of Pravda, Location: Alabama

Posted: 9/25/2008, 10:33 pm
—

Private Pravda wrote

Commissar Theocritus wrote

Guest Troll wrote

To be fair for VietNam we go all the way back to the beloved Generalissmo Ike the magnificent who thought 'investing troops' in the VietNam conflict had merit. Little did he know what seeds he sowed. Small investments to be sure but later as times changed and new ~~Premiers~~ Presidents came on board the rhetoric and physical presence both went up. Thus I found myself in a land of many different dialects and decidely unfriendly people who continued to shoot at me in an attempt to get me to leave (nice guy that I am) thus leading me tothe one truism in life, mine is precious and to be preserved at all cost.

#39: Author: Commissar Theocritus, Location: Texas

Posted: 9/26/2008, 12:11 am
—
<off>

Guardian of Pravda wrote

mine is precious and to be preserved at all cost.

True, in a Catch 22 sense. Remember Orr, if I remember it? But one has to have a matrix in which to live and that matrix requires sustenance.

I really appreciate things. I live in a small town in West Texas, say what I want, am openly gay, and no one gives me shit. Well, I'm armed and can give it back. But I'm alive and wouldn't be in a lot of other places and other times. This is a precious bubble in time, this freedom, and to keep it only for ourselves is to throw it away for we cannot run far and fast enough to keep ahead of the Stalinists who want only our subjection. It's an odd thing: freedom requires blood and so often it's ours.

#40: Author: ConservativeMuzhelozhstvo, Location: Lakeland, FL

Posted: 9/26/2008, 1:59 am
—

Premier Betty wrote

Gentlemen, from this day forward you shall all refer to me by the name Betty.

Nyaha! Naahhhaaahaaaa!!

And Betty when you call me, you can call me Al.

Nananana, nanananana. Nananana, nanananananana!

#41: Author: Premier Betty, Location: People's Glorious Demokratssky Republik Kalivornja.

Posted: 9/26/2008, 2:10 am
—

#42: Author: Politilemologist, Location: Utah ...a place most "progressives" would love to see burn

Posted: 9/26/2008, 3:39 am
—

Premier Betty wrote

Ivan Jerkinov wrote

Can I call you "Betty"?

Gentlemen, from this day forward you shall all refer to me by the name Betty.

Nyaha! Naahhhaaahaaaa!!

I need to post a pic of my "Betty" Mii on here sometime.

#43: Re: upper west side rats of stalin Author: Politilemologist, Location: Utah ...a place most "progressives" would love to see burn

Posted: 9/26/2008, 4:14 am
—

Anonymous wrote

angmannyc wrote

Dear Lemming Troll "Guest,"

First off, (and I do not mean to throw Comrade AngMannyC under the bus by saying this...I'm not as Elite as Obama to do such a glorious thing), to say to us "it's funny how you guys..." is to claim we all feel or say that same exact way. Only when we are in character do we have groupthink. We actually, when out of character, don't "non-conform" to the exact same "non-conformity" that all "non-conformists" end up conforming to, (or trendy bandwagon jumpers, socialist yuppies, or fans of Drano).

Secondly, even when any of us, like AngMannyC, or I have myself at times, felt so frustrated with your ~~hypocrasy~~ "idealogy," we don't actually believe in ever acting out these feelings, nor implement them in governmental laws--we just are flawed beings. Those that act out on said feelings are of the glorious socialistic views to put into play laws that will tax us into homelessness, where we would inevitabely choke and die on a piece of garbage.

Thirdishly, the mere fact that you consider Obama no more left than Nixon shows how completely clueless you are of your glorious Messiah--study His word! Feast upon it! Have you even bothered to actually look up what his views really are? Or do you consider the wonderful words "Hope" and "Change" "about as far left as Richard Nixon"?

Fourthanobly, I pissed on your ancestors' graves.

Fifthenimish, I doubt you are even reading this, so I don't know why I'm still typing.

#44: Author: Guardian of Pravda, Location: Alabama

Posted: 9/26/2008, 8:38 am
—

Commissar Theocritus wrote

<off>

Guardian of Pravda wrote

mine is precious and to be preserved at all cost.

Yas.
Poor Orr, up the creek without a paddle and Sweden was his only hope of continued exsistence.
Best to opt out than in?
I made the trip three times which was sufficient opportunity for them to achieve their goals. They failed. I take solace in that.
Our Corpman was Gay. To us however he was our Corpsman. Heaven help anyone that gave him a hard time. We didn't care then or now and that was in the middle sixities.
I am in a small bedroom community in Alabama, there are Blacks, Whites, and myself (The only Erie Indian in a thousand miles) and no one makes any issue out of anything.
Alabama, now who would have thunk it right?
Freedom is here until a Democrat shows up to tell everyone they have none and are oppressed.
We miss out on so much in the way of oppression.

#45: Author: Sheik Abu Moham, Location: The Farthest Mosque

Posted: 9/26/2008, 10:17 am
    —
To speak out of character is haram infidel Guest(JB).

I live among the liberals of Minnesota.  Now known as The Farthest Masque.

http://www.patdollard.com/2008/04/teacher-blows-whistle-on-minnesota-charter-school-its-a-madrassah/


One most learn to seize the opportunity whenever oppression presents itself.

Look for the signs.

Last edited by Sheik Abu Moham on 9/27/2008, 10:10 pm; edited 2 times in total

#46: Author: Jack Baney,

Posted: 9/26/2008, 10:34 am
—

Commissar Theocritus wrote

Question. Why is it that the lefties seldom have a name, even a nom-de-plume? Is it the solipsistic view that they speak for the ages and therefore don't need one, dispensing wisdom from the redoubts of their closeted minds? Is it a paucity of imagination?

Answer. I can't speak for all lefties, but I forgot to type my name in the "username" field on the "post a reply" page. Is that okay with you, dude? At any rate, it's clear that citing an anonymous troll on a right-wing satire page as evidence that leftist claim to speak for the ages and lack imagination isn't the least bit retarded at all.

Commissar Theocritus wrote

Why don't you study some history about Nixon? He proposed the first socialized medicine. Hardly a right-winger.

No shit, Commissar. And he was also hardly a communist.

But you're right... It's clear that Obama is a hard-core commie. I'm terrified that he'll rise to power under dubious circumstances and start acting like a miniature Stalin--locking people up without charging them with anything, denying them habeas corpus, torturing them, claiming that he's above the law, engaging in wiretapping, and generally wiping his ass with the Constitution... It's going to be absolutely unprecedented, I tell you.

#47: Author: Guardian of Pravda, Location: Alabama

Posted: 9/26/2008, 11:40 am
—

Sheik Abu Moham wrote

To speak out of character is haram infidel Guest.

I live among the liberals of Minnesota. Now known as The Farthest Masque.

http://www.patdollard.com/2008/04/teacher-blows-whistle-on-minnesota-charter-school-its-a-madrassah/

One most learn to seize the opportunity whenever oppression presents itself.

Look for the signs.

Shovels!!! Life is good.

#48: Author: Guardian of Pravda, Location: Alabama

Posted: 9/26/2008, 11:40 am
—

Jack Baney wrote

Commissar Theocritus wrote

Why don't you study some history about Nixon? He proposed the first socialized medicine. Hardly a right-winger.

Did you miss the bus too?

#49: Author: Politilemologist, Location: Utah ...a place most "progressives" would love to see burn

Posted: 9/26/2008, 1:40 pm
—

Jack Baney wrote

Commissar Theocritus wrote

Why don't you study some history about Nixon? He proposed the first socialized medicine. Hardly a right-winger.

Dear JB,

You are starting to make me laugh with each more sentence that you attempt to spit out on here through your oppressed-by-capitalism face.

If you understood what satire was, you wouldn't be sarcastically mocking what you think are our true views were that Obama is a 100% pure "commie."

You can lookup online about what Satire is about.

And get your slams right if you are trying to reference Bush as a commie, he's a FASCIST remember? There is a kit on here you can purchase to install Hitler moustaches on Bush along with your posts. But you might not want to buy it, that would be promoting evil capitalism, unless you are living off enough welfare to afford it yourself.

You still haven't addressed rather you actually just don't understand anything about Obama's political views considering him no more left than Nixon, or if you think the words Hope and Change are "moderate."

You are quickly starting to rise among enjoyable trolls, soon you might even reach MIME status, but you'd still have a way to go to get there.

Keep it up you darling little lemming!

#50: Author: Politilemologist, Location: Utah ...a place most "progressives" would love to see burn

Posted: 9/26/2008, 1:40 pm
—
And...I pissed on your ancestors' graves again.

#51: Author: Guardian of Pravda, Location: Alabama

Posted: 9/26/2008, 1:50 pm
—
???? Septic tanks????

#52: Author: Sister Massively Opiated, Location: The Peoples' Socialist Republic of Kanadistan

Posted: 9/26/2008, 2:10 pm
—

Jack Baney wrote

Commissar Theocritus wrote

heheheh.... he called Theo "dude"... That's pretty funny, and not remotely because of his "choice of lifestyle"...

... what's funnier is that I'm The Queen of the Run-on Sentence (and The Princess of Canada), and even I can't make sense of that last sentence... ,,, ;;; ... ??? Huh?... what?... nothing...

Jack Baney wrote

Commissar Theocritus wrote

Why don't you study some history about Nixon? He proposed the first socialized medicine. Hardly a right-winger.

Never mind solipsism... can anyone say, "syllogistic fallacy"... f**k that... how 'bout "syllogistic phallicy"...

Heterdoxically Yours... Ours... Mine... Huh?... what?... nothing...
SMO

ps... Theo... you really have to try some of this peyote...

#53: Author: Jack Baney,

Posted: 9/26/2008, 2:36 pm
—
Yeah, all of that is pretty hilarious, all right. I'm attempting to spit out sentences through my oppressed-by-capitalism face... Someone is pissing on my ancestors' graves... I called Theo "dude"... The queen of run-on sentences doesn't understand me... Syllogistic phallicy... Funny stuff!

#54: Thank you Author: Guardian of Pravda, Location: Alabama

Posted: 9/26/2008, 3:36 pm
—

Jack Baney wrote

Yeah, all of that is pretty hilarious, all right. I'm attempting to spit out sentences through my oppressed-by-capitalism face... Someone is pissing on my ancestors' graves... I called Theo "dude"... The queen of run-on sentences doesn't understand me... Syllogistic phallicy... Funny stuff!

It is good to see you are getting the party line, well perhaps you already bought the Party line, Hook, Bait and Sinker. I am sure you have a supply of shovels available for your own use as you will probably go through many of them.
Remember soon to be be former comrade that once you enter into someones else's yard you need to understand the rules of the yard. Failing that you should not complain when the members of the Yard tell you in so many words what they think of you.
Had you been invited to provide mime you might have received a different welcome but having displayed that what you want to present is vitriol there is no reason for you to be upset with the reception. You called it on yourself.
Remember the One will lead you to economic freedom as he takes all your money for his and someone else's use. That should make you happy at night and warm your heart to the point that you want to volunteer for the Shovel Brigades.
Dos De Vana

#55: Author: Sheik Abu Moham, Location: The Farthest Mosque

Posted: 9/26/2008, 3:50 pm
—

Guardian of Pravda wrote

..........ah for the good old days when that could have become a full blown brawl or riot allowing me to swing my 'Stick of oppression' and make mental attitude adjustments on a few wrong thinkers. Ah but those days are gone, now we mace them.

Perhaps you haven't heard Comrade Guardian, mace is no longer the Directors choice. Today the leaders of the oppressed use a single finger. Usually accompanied with accusations of bigotry, racism or some sort of phobia. Much more effective and falls within the correctness laws of the Commission.

You should comply to give JB your 'Stick of oppression'. This is surely why he's come.

Last edited by Sheik Abu Moham on 9/26/2008, 4:18 pm; edited 3 times in total

#56: Author: Commissar Theocritus, Location: Texas

Posted: 9/26/2008, 3:58 pm
—
<off>
Actually Obama is engaging in suppression of dissent--rule one for fascism. It's here..

And Sister, dear, I don't consider you the queen of run-on sentences for they're beautifully punctuated. But if you insist, I will concur, and thank you for the lovely stationery by the way, which just arrived.

Jack Baney will never, and I do beg your pardon, Jack, rise to the prominence of the Mime for there is obviously something there which has not been crystallized by rage into a solid rock of hatred. The Mime is nothing but his own rage. A low-calorie thing to be sure. Jack Baney recognizes that there are other people. The Mime does not.

#57: Author: Jack Baney,

Posted: 9/26/2008, 4:10 pm
—
Obviously, I have no idea what the hell any of you are talking about. However, I will acknowledge that posting on a satirical web site where everyone's politics are the exact opposite of yours just to piss people off is a vaguely assholish thing to do. I don't go around sneering at right-wingers in real life, and if I did, they would be perfectly justified in kicking my ass. And with that, "Comrades," I shall bid you adieu.

#58: Author: Felix Dzerzhinsky, Location: Right behind you, comrade

Posted: 9/26/2008, 4:10 pm
—

Jack Baney wrote

Comrade Baney is not amused.

Perhaps he was not issued his allotted ration of humor for this month?

#59: Author: Sheik Abu Moham, Location: The Farthest Mosque

Posted: 9/26/2008, 4:19 pm
—

Jack Baney wrote

I will acknowledge that posting on a satirical web site where everyone's politics are the exact opposite of yours just to piss people off is a vaguely assholish thing to do.

Well said.........

It appears we have a 'Runner'.

Last edited by Sheik Abu Moham on 9/27/2008, 10:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

#60: Author: Sister Massively Opiated, Location: The Peoples' Socialist Republic of Kanadistan

Posted: 9/26/2008, 4:29 pm
—
Lighten up Baney,

What's funny is my relatives living in Israel having fucking unguided missiles lobbed at them and being ready to sit down to negotiate peace...

What's funny is a farmer sitting on his tractor in the middle of a field in the Hula Valley, which was malaria swamp 70 years ago until a bunch of kibbutnik refugees who made it past the British blockades drained it and turned it back into some of the most fertile land in the world, after it had been decimated by overgrazing by... I guess it must have been Canaanites... and being blown up by fuckers up on the Golan Heights with rocket launchers...

The Balfour declaration makes me titter occasionally when I'm in the mood for historical farce...

Better yet, how 'bout this one?... habeus corpus is meant to protect against arbitrary state action and to seek relief from unlawful detention by the state... except I really have a hard time thinking that 9/11 was arbitrary and so the response to hijacking planes and flying them into buildings, thereby killing thousands of people, no matter how harsh it might be... how extreme it might be... is not an arbitrary one...

I don't live in the US, or the UK, or Spain, or Bali, but I live next to the US, and statistically, we may very well be next, so I would have no problem with my government enacting an extreme response to an extreme act. What I don't get, being a Jew and so someone who even a few decades ago was barred from renting apartments in the city I now live in or belonging to certain clubs or buying property in certain areas, and as someone who tastes fear on a regular basis because it wasn't so long ago that my ancestors were being rounded up like cattle and slaughtered less humanely, and who, having gotten to the one place in the entire world that could ever really be called theirs (my own country had a parliament that supported a 'none is too many' policy during WWII when it came to Jewish refugees) - a tiny sliver of land in the entire fucking middle east, that takes three hours to drive across and ten hours at most to drive the length of, if traffic is heavy... 10,000 square miles among 6,145,389 square miles of countries belonging to the League of Arab States... are surrounded by those who would "push them into the sea"... is how people can be so incredibly naive...

I have very good friends of all religions, but none of them are fanatics, and the problem with fanatics is that they are always right (I'm sure you're shaking your head at this point knowing I've made your point for you)... The thing that most people don't understand because it's so far outside their own experiences is that a fanatic will not sit down and have a discussion with you. A fanatic will not stop and have a debate about habeas corpus or unlawful detention before they shoot you in the fucking head or strap a bomb on themselves and blow up your family while they're out shopping or at work or on the subway or just walking down the street. They won't extend to you the same rights that you want to extend to them, which is all very nice if the only thing at stake is whether you neighbour's tree is hanging over your driveway and getting sap on your car, but just doesn't cut it when they want to kill you because you don't believe the same things they do...

I'm pretty sure you've never been in a bomb shelter, of necessity, or been fitted for a gas mask and been given a self-injection kit for nerve gas, and then hidden in a plastic lined room while you could feel explosions going off within miles of you and wondered whether the scud that landed was carrying weaponized anthrax or nerve gas, so when you have, then come and talk to me, and we can exchange experiences. Until then, I would urge you to rethink the context of habeas corpus because it's all well and good if there is no evil in the world, but when the bad guys won't stop to talk things over and they act arbitrarily, and you don't have to worry about unlawful detention cause they won't waste the space on you but will just kill you first, then it's just a bunch of words... Fanatics don't given a shit about our words, whether they are friendly words or not. They just wanna kill us... and until people stop sitting around with their heads up their asses wondering what they did to bring a fanatic to their doorstep, they're going to just keep killing us, because we're different with them and we don't agree with them and they don't care to sit down and talk and find common ground.

We are talking about people who don't even grant their own the right of habeas corpus... I'm pretty sure that nowhere in Sharia is the concept ensconced. And if this....

....isn't enough proof for you that you are extending rights to those who would kill you as soon as look at you, then close your eyes and picture your mother's face on this woman... or your sister's ... or your girlfriend's or your wife's or your daughter's... and ask yourself, did she have recourse to habeas corpus, or did she just have recourse to actus reus leading to "corpus sum" (forgive my poor latin)...

So no... not really funny... but if you come here being all high and mighty, then you leave yourself open to derision... As opposed to when we visit and post on left-leaning sites, and we just leave ourselves open to being deleted... censored... by those who are the first to scream about their rights... If you think for one minute that you would be allowed recourse to habeas corpus in most of the countries that the guests of Gitmo come from, then all I can say is visit them and you'll see how we feel when we visit sites that don't hold the same views as us... deleted... only the stakes will be much higher for you...

But then, if you had it your way, the stakes would be much higher for you just living in your own country - something you apparently fail to realize. So, when you get yourself fitted for a gas mask, then come back and talk to me about habeas corpus... it'll be a little muffled, but at least then we'll be on an equal footing. Of course, if you lived in a non-capitalist state, it's questionable whether you'd be issued a gas mask... or whether they'd have any to issue to you... or whether you'd have gotten anything but the party line out of your... what was it?... "oppressed-by-capitalism face".

What is funny is that if this site and sites such as D-KOS were actual countries, you would have a voice but we wouldn't...

So... when you want to have a reasoned debate instead of just coming here and shitting out pebble-like turds of wisdom, by all means... I did pretty 'good' when it came to logic during my philosophy courses way back during my undergrad.... we can break it all down and find out where the logic falls apart... where the assumption is incorrect...

Actually... it just occurred to me that what IS funny (or maybe just sophomorically clever) is that you are the sine qua non of this site... you and your ilk are the reason we exist... videlicet, our very own without which not, as it were...

So we "Retarded Douchebags" welcome you...
SMO

#61: Author: Jack Baney,

Posted: 9/26/2008, 6:16 pm
—
Like everyone else who posts a “farewell” message on the Internet, I’m going to go back on my word and post something else. Instead of repeating that you’re all retarded douchebags or “shitting out pebble-like turds of wisdom,” I’ll try to be serious and avoid saying anything that I wouldn’t say to your faces.

Quote

…I would urge you to rethink the context of habeas corpus because it's all well and good if there is no evil in the world, but when the bad guys [etc.].

This is the same logic used by the Stalinists who you guys spend all of your time mocking. “Hey, it would be great to respect individual freedoms, but with the evil capitalists constantly trying to destroy our socialist utopia, I’m afraid that we just can’t afford etc.” The facts are that there has never been an absence of evil or fanatical “bad guys” in the world, that no society has ever been free from major threats, and that this will always be the case. Unless you’re going to deny these obvious facts, it follows that you don’t think habeas corpus has ever been “all well and good” or that it ever will be.

But the reason why democratic societies generally do think that habeas corpus is very, very good is that it provides recourse to people who have been unjustly imprisoned, and the Bush Administration’s post-9/11 detention policies provide a good example of why unjust imprisonment should be a concern. The vast majority of Guantanamo Bay prisoners were apprehended by non-U.S. forces, many of which collected bounties for handing the prisoners over. At least one CIA analyst estimated that one-third of the people in Guantanamo Bay weren’t guilty of anything. Since 2002, many Guantanamo prisoners have been released without having been charged with anything. It’s clear that the administration has imprisoned a lot of innocent people, and it’s quite possible that future administrations—including the potential Obama Administration—might do the same or even worse. There needs to be protection against these abuses.

I think you need to seriously consider the implications of the premise that U.S. Presidents should have the power to imprison whoever they want, without charging them with anything, while subjecting them to mock drownings, sensory and sleep deprivation, stress positions, extreme temperatures, etc., for as long as they want. Think of what a horrible, disgusting leftist who thinks that he’s right and you’re wrong about everything—like, say, me—could do to you if he inherited that power.

I’ll close with a quote about Bush interrogation policies by Alberto Mora, the former navy counsel and lifelong conservative: “If cruelty is no longer declared unlawful, but instead is applied as a matter of policy, it alters the fundamental relationship of man to government. It destroys the whole notion of individual rights. The Constitution recognizes that man has an inherent right, not bestowed by the state or laws, to personal dignity, including the right to be free of cruelty. It applies to all human beings, not just in America—even those designated as ‘unlawful enemy combatants.’ If you make this exception, the whole Constitution crumbles. It’s a transformative issue.”

#62: Author: AbecedariusRex, Location: Minneapolis, Northern Hemisphere

Posted: 9/26/2008, 7:00 pm
—
great. now my buzz is ruined. thanks alot.

#63: Author: AbecedariusRex, Location: Minneapolis, Northern Hemisphere

Posted: 9/26/2008, 8:27 pm
—
Okay. Now it's back.

#64: Author: Sister Massively Opiated, Location: The Peoples' Socialist Republic of Kanadistan

Posted: 9/26/2008, 9:17 pm
    —
heheheh... Thanks Rex...

But seriously... in theory, I don't remotely disagree with JB, and as most everyone around here knows, I'm probably the most heterodox left-leaning among us, and there are certain left of centre principles that I hold dearly and would lay down my life for... and the concept of habeas corpus is an important one, but I have to ask the question... What happens when your enemy does not play by the same rules you do?  What happens when they use the system that a brilliant democracy and great minds have created to protect basic human rights and freedoms and they twist it and manipulate it to the point that it becomes a weapon that they can wield against the very people it should protect?

I'll use an example from the business world.  There are, in English speaking countries that have a tradition of common law, a system of regulation (by the government) and the common law created by the courts on the basis of precedents.  And, there is interplay between the two.  The basis of accounting and auditing is regulation and there are regulatory bodies (in Canada, this would be the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants... like CPA's) who set regulation for accounting and for all intents and purposes, unless the government has an agenda related to taxes or some other issue, they basically let the CICA set accounting regulation... law... and this was all well and good as a system for the last couple centuries or so as far as the UK and Canada were concerned... The laws were reasonable and made sense and took into account the interests of shareholders and stakeholders and were not weighted over in one direction or another.  Nor were they open too widely to manipulation - nothing being perfect.  But accounting... accrual accounting was a backward looking instrument that was essentially historical and even the most up to date information was yesterday's information and so the door that could be said to represent perfect information was basically closed unless someone broke the law and utilized  'insider information', which is a breach of trust.

The problem with this system and its principles is that they do not take into account the changes that information technology have meant for the system... the ability of companies to report in real time changes the underlying qualities of information, and the door the represents the quality of information that speculators have has become wider and wider, and so information has become more perfect... which given that regulation has not caught up is not a good thing.  The fact that there are multiple markets that are open and closed at different times but which can interact and the speed with which information becomes available has essentially turned the entire world economy into a system of arbitrage, rather than arbitrage simply being focused on currency exchange and manipulation... The fact that regulation has not kept up to technology... law has not kept up to technology has meant that there is room for manipulation of markets that has never been possible before, and even the economy and 'the market's' reliance on technology has left it open to issues that never existed before.  I don't argue that the more perfect information is, the better and the lower the risk, but the bottom line is that when it comes to markets, perfect information is and always will be diametrically opposed to the concept of speculation and therefore is implicitly illegal... it is insider information... I'll even make you smile and suggest that a perfect explanation and example can be found in the documentary, The Smartest Guys in the Room, which many here will hiss at me for saying... but it is a good example because it is so exaggerated.

I hope you can see where I'm going with this because I admit it's not a perfect analogy, but I'm sitting here watching the freaking non-debate and so I can't really get away from it... The world has changed, period... whether it is the economy or whether the same mechanisms that allow for the manipulations of world markets are applied politically and that means that basic regulation and the common law have not caught up.  I have no argument that US citizens (and Canadian) should be protected by habeas corpus and under 'normal' (ie. the old) circumstances, I'd be the first to argue that foreign prisoners should have the same rights as native born Americans and recourse to the same mechanisms that protect US citizens... but the world has changed fundamentally, and whereas in the past, a quarter or more of the world's population could be wiped out by fleas and bad hygiene over the course of several years, they can now be wiped out in a matter of weeks by a few well placed pathogen carriers... I live in Toronto... believe me... we had something here called SARS that was an accident... a bad strain of bird flu that someone brought from overseas without meaning to... What if someone does it one purpose?...

Saddam Hussein gassed his own people (or the Kurds, but they were Iraqi Kurds)... The Taliban murdered and tortured their own people, and always the women worse than the men... The Iranian secret service does their own citizens no service at all, secret or otherwise.  That does not mean that we should automatically behave like them.  But they won't hesitate to behave towards us the way they behave toward each other and they don't give one whit about our noble ideals and moral centre.  And it's all well and good to play fair when the only thing at stake is who wins all the marbles, but when you're fighting for your life, and many, including me, would argue that we are, I have no compunction about kicking someone in the nuts, morally speaking... If it saves lives... if it protects us against murderers, I believe that it's called self-defense.... justifiable homicide... whatever... and if, in order to prevent further mass murder, we are required to play by the rules of others when playing with those others, then they have asked for no less.

I'm sorry... but as enlightened as I might want to be, if enlightened means that I always turn the other cheek, I don't see that I don't have the right through whatever mechanisms available to self-defense.  And I can't see this as anything but self-defense.  Please... and I mean this most seriously, explain to me in terms that are not theoretical, how else I can reasonably understand it?  I knew people - not well but well enough - who were killed when the twin towers fell... two men who had lectured at my business school when I did my MBA... who are dead now because of a bunch of fanatics.  They have no recourse to the law, nor do their families.  They were murdered and their murderers have not been brought to justice, but one thing we all know is that their murderers were part of an ongoing conspiracy.  I have friends and family who have died in Israel doing nothing but going about their lives... people who would have considered themselves 'doves', and they have no recourse to the noble concepts that you can only discuss in theory because how do we apply them to people who will continue to try to kill us and do continue to try and kill us.  Do I not have a right to self-defense, and as long as I do, how do I enact that?  What mechanisms protect me?  What rights do I have to protect myself?  I am asking not for theories but for real mechanisms... real strategies... real rules by which I can protect myself and those I love, and those who are simply fellow members of the society I live in?

Please... Give me an answer that is workable.  Give me something other than theory that is wonderful in theory, but has lost it's relevance given the circumstances... given that those who we are discussing would not deign to allow us to plead for our lives before they killed us, let alone allow us recourse to a concept as noble and as important as habeas corpus.... Please...

Best
SMO

#65: Author: Guardian of Pravda, Location: Alabama

Posted: 9/26/2008, 9:29 pm
—
Wow.

#66: Author: Sister Massively Opiated, Location: The Peoples' Socialist Republic of Kanadistan

Posted: 9/26/2008, 9:33 pm
—
I just caught up with Theo's post regarding the stationery (which I sent him via the mail), and the Mime, which JB will not know about...

JB... the Mime is a rage filled individual who is a left-wing sometimes troll on this site, but who, when we post on he or his friends', immediately deletes any and everything he can figure out we've posted and who is just so filled with anger and hate (and though I don't like to disrespect people by presuming to psychoanalyze them, is probably profoundly insecure and has some other major issues related to delusions of adequacy)... But what Theo is saying is that you are not like that and appear to be capable of real and substantive debate, rather than just ridiculous pot shots that move the 'argument at hand' forward not at all. He is offering you a compliment which I agree with. You don't seem to be an angry person, but rather, someone who it would be possible to sit down with and have a civilized discussion with, which would probably be interesting and might be actually be informative for both sides because you ARE capable of rational discourse, rather than only rage and hate filled rants...

So, by all means, take it as it was meant, which was, I believe, as a compliment, even if we don't agree with your position.

That said, this IS a satire site, so we make fun of thing... it's what we do... we even make fun of ourselves... and often each other... we have fun...

#67: Author: Sister Massively Opiated, Location: The Peoples' Socialist Republic of Kanadistan

Posted: 9/26/2008, 9:38 pm
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Guardian of Pravda wrote

Wow.

um... Wow what?... Am I grounded?....

#68: Author: Guardian of Pravda, Location: Alabama

Posted: 9/26/2008, 9:42 pm
—
As to that my friend you must decide for yourself if you are grounded, are we speaking extentially, physically, morally, metaphysically or simply using the metaphor?.
I would say you are well grounded in the principles of life and articulation. Job well done. Hearty applause. Don't Bogart the sin sin.
By the way my Tribe never used peyote.

#69: Author: Ivan Betinov, Location: Kentucky

Posted: 9/26/2008, 9:59 pm
—

Quote

Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants.

"Oh, it's fun to charter an accountant
And sail the wide Acountant Sea!"
--From the "Crimson Mutual Assurance Company" in Monty Python's "Meaning of Life."

G.O. Pravda, you say you live in a bedroom community in Alabama. Remarkable. At least two other regular Cubists (myself being one of them) hails from the Sweet Home originally. I grew up outside a little town called Cullman, about half-way between Birmingham and Huntsville on I-65. Are you in the vicinity?

#70: Author: S.A.F. Marshal Pravda, Location: People's State of TexUS

Posted: 9/26/2008, 10:59 pm
—
hmmm..SMO, the new Macbook air suits you, dah?

#71: Author: Ivan From Village 62, Location: People's Demokratik Kalifornia Respublik

Posted: 9/26/2008, 11:08 pm
—

Jack Baney wrote

Obviously, I have no idea what the hell any of you are talking about. However, I will acknowledge that posting on a satirical web site where everyone's politics are the exact opposite of yours just to piss people off is a vaguely assholish thing to do. I don't go around sneering at right-wingers in real life, and if I did, they would be perfectly justified in kicking my ass. And with that, "Comrades," I shall bid you adieu.

In the immortal words of Firesign Theater:

"He's no fun, he fell right over."

#72: Author: S.A.F. Marshal Pravda, Location: People's State of TexUS

Posted: 9/26/2008, 11:17 pm
—

Ivan From Village 62 wrote

Jack Baney wrote

In the immortal words of Firesign Theater:

"He's no fun, he fell right over."

lol, We're All Bozos On This Bus, dah?

#73: Author: Margaret, Location: shopping, jet-setting or helping Uncle $.$. at the family estate

Posted: 9/26/2008, 11:32 pm
—

Jack Baney wrote

I think you need to seriously consider the implications of the premise that U.S. Presidents should have the power to imprison whoever they want...

But Jack, this isn't about Presidents having the power to imprison whomever they want. This is a mischaracterization. Bush never asked for and Bush does not have and never will have the power to imprison whomever he wants. Those that can be detained and imprisoned is expressly limited to enemy combatants.

If you're worried about Presidents having the power to imprison whoever they want I think much more frightening precedents, if precedent you are worried about, would be that of Woodrow Wilson in WWI and FDR in WWII.

Jack, suspending habeas corpus isn't how Presidents imprison whomever they want. That's a very blunt instrument and frightens people. They use the Legislative branch to put together the proper laws necessary - like Wilson's Espionage Act. On that front, the Legislative, I'm more worried about what the environmentalist and the "climate change" crowd is going to do to me, my life and my liberty than I am of Bush.

#74: Author: Navigator, Location: Tonasket Where Liberals Keep It Zipped.

Posted: 9/26/2008, 11:57 pm
—
My 2¢:

I thought the video was great!
What's all the hubbub about, bub?

Whew!
Beet farming been berry berry good for me.

#75: Author: Ivan Betinov, Location: Kentucky

Posted: 9/27/2008, 12:06 am
—
"Hane...Hane is...how you say...'Tight-ass bitch.' Chico no gon' miss Hane." Ah for the days when SNL was actually funny.

#76: Author: Politilemologist, Location: Utah ...a place most "progressives" would love to see burn

Posted: 9/27/2008, 12:22 am
—

Sister Massively Opiated wrote

Please... Give me an answer that is workable. Give me something other than theory that is wonderful in theory, but has lost it's relevance given the circumstances

Well put indeed!

This reminds me of a quote from Homer Simpson:

"In theory, communism works, IN THEORY"

In reality, theory does not always translate to the practical. Dare I say, that I'd be more...not liberal...but at least more moderate if the theoretical political ideas that sound so wonderful to the struggling American would actually be effective in real life?

The same can be said, of course, about capitalism--at least in its purest form--when crooked Wall Street guppies don't think ahead or beyond their own pocketbook, but I obviously (and speaking 100% out of character right now lol), truly believe in our own individual rights of free trade, free choice of religion, and the right to keep my own money if I'm successful or not, and the right to give it charitably to whom I wish to give it to--not to whom the government chooses.

I think those that are poor and expect handouts from the government, are the same type of people that are rich and don't give to charity freely (they'd both cry the same if they switched sides), whereas the poor who DON'T expect handouts (unless "life-or-death" necessary) are the same who WOULD give back if they were loaded...but that's what our individual rights should allow us to do, not have "progressive" taxes that tank chunks of our money that doesn't go directly to charity, but trickles down barely, if at all, through grubby politicians and special interest groups. Again, a perfect example of how theory translates poorly of 'more taxes helping the poor.' McCain and his wife have every right to give 1/4 to almost 1/3 of their profits to charity, just like Obama and Biden have their right to keep all but less than 5%.

But that's a butt-load of a tangent there.

JB, when you say:

Jack Baney wrote

The facts are that there has never been an absence of evil or fanatical “bad guys” in the world, that no society has ever been free from major threats, and that this will always be the case. Unless you’re going to deny these obvious facts, it follows that you don’t think habeas corpus has ever been “all well and good” or that it ever will be.

Are you denying the "obvious facts" that the world has indeed changed and these major threats are not the same as Hitler? Al Qaeda does not play by the same rules as any other enemy before.

I don't disagree with the probability, given the supporting evidence, that these powers have been abused, and they should not be abused.

This doesn't mean that there can't be better check-and-balance rules or oversight that can keep abuse from happening in the future.

My cousin was in the building across the street from the Twin Towers when he saw a man get killed right in front of him from falling debris and other pieces landing feet away from him before he got out of there. I didn't personally know anyone that was killed, but the truth is, I think there needs to be measures (with proper checks and balances) used to prevent this from happening again in America.

I'm in accounting and so I actually enjoyed Sister Massively Opiated's example. Similar examples can be used that new rules and adjustments always need to take effect in changing enviornments. When new rules are implemented, sometimes they can be poorly chosen rules, or they're good ideas that need to be adjusted, fixed or implemented in a better way.

Now why I also agree with some here to say you are different than Mr. Mimey because one could have an intellectual debate with you about this. Nevertheless, the fact that you call this an "assholish" thing for laughing at a different point of view, even sometimes laughing at ourselves, and enjoying satire, is absolutely ridiculous of you. Do you have that same opinion of people on your side as well, like jokes about Bush? If you don't understand what humor is, and that the majority of most humor on the planet is almost always offensive to at least SOMEONE, than you must not have a funny bone in your body. Of course, it could be just that you enjoy humor that is non-offensive to every single living person, which I'm sure must be wonderful humor indeed!

That being said, I really wish I didn't post anything, if I wanted to post a normal debate-type response, I wouldn't be here. If your ultimate goal was to make some of us break character and not laugh at ourselves, you have succeeded and I am now one of the fallen that has failed.

I now march myself to the Gulag! Ha! I'm back in character again!

All better now!

And...I piss on your ancestor's graves!

#77: Author: Guardian of Pravda, Location: Alabama

Posted: 9/27/2008, 9:04 am
—

Ivan Betinov wrote

Quote

Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants.

Absolutely. Cullman is 60 miles north of me. Go there often. Fish Smith Lake and have many friends there. Usually go straight up 278 and through Holly Pond.

#78: Comrade Author: Guardian of Pravda, Location: Alabama

Posted: 9/27/2008, 9:12 am
—

Margaret wrote

Jack Baney wrote

I think you need to seriously consider the implications of the premise that U.S. Presidents should have the power to imprison whoever they want...

I opt out that throwing facts into this will not work. Facts are determined by the perceiver and the perceiver basis his perception on emotion rather than cold analysis.
Habeus Corpus can under certain circumstance, and by the Constitution, be lifted and this little know fact remains an open secret.
So far it does not apply to non citizens not in this country at the time of the crime which is another little known open secret. You must also be able to show that the crime is related to US Sovereignty and the 'alleged crimes' committed in Afghanistan ad Iraq were not related to Sovereignty but rather to War on an International basis. (Another open secret, we were not there alone)
Previous SCOTUS decisions going back to the early 1900's have made it clear it applies to non citizens committing crimes IN this country. SCOTUS legislates too much and Congress does not overrule too often.

#79: Author: Sister Massively Opiated, Location: The Peoples' Socialist Republic of Kanadistan

Posted: 9/27/2008, 12:31 pm
—
G of P - Grounded... like, I'm in trouble and have to come home straight away after school and can't go out with my friends and lost my allowance for a month...

My Tribe doesn't use peyote either, but having grown up in Saskatchewan, I had friend who were Cree and Hand whose tribes did and were allowed to use it under law as part of their tribal ceremonies... and I know a lunatic Jesuit astronomer in Arazona who uses it occasionally.

Pravda the First - Da... I like it very much and it is very easy for me to use without hurting my back, which means I can post inexorably long rants... that just go on and on and on and on... and on.... ... ... ... and on...

... .... and on...

#80: Author: Guardian of Pravda, Location: Alabama

Posted: 9/27/2008, 1:04 pm
—

Sister Massively Opiated wrote

G of P - Grounded... like, I'm in trouble and have to come home straight away after school and can't go out with my friends and lost my allowance for a month...

My Tribe doesn't use peyote either, but having grown up in Saskatchewan, I had friend who were Cree and Hand whose tribes did and were allowed to use it under law as part of their tribal ceremonies... and I know a lunatic Jesuit astronomer in Arazona who uses it occasionally.

Pravda the First - Da... I like it very much and it is very easy for me to use without hurting my back, which means I can post inexorably long rants... that just go on and on and on and on... and on.... ... ... ... and on...

... .... and on...

No grounding, go forth and spread the word.
Your allowance will be taxed appropriately by the 'One', we must give all for the Community.
You have friends? No Comrades??? Do you have a shovel handy?

The Erie are related to the Cree (Chippewa or O'Chippewa) as we are Iroquois and the Objiwe are also Algonquin. We do have Souian roots also.
We fall more in line with the Huron and Wynadott as to relation and are mixed in heavily with them.
We prefer Bay laurel with the special mix. The Hogans always face the rising sun.

#81: Author: Sister Massively Opiated, Location: The Peoples' Socialist Republic of Kanadistan

Posted: 9/27/2008, 1:13 pm
—

Guardian of Pravda wrote

The Erie are related to the Cree (Chippewa or O'Chippewa) as we are Iroquois and the Objiwe are also Algonquin. We do have Souian roots also.
We fall more in line with the Huron and Wynadott as to relation and are mixed in heavily with them.
We prefer Bay laurel with the special mix. The Hogans always face the rising sun.

Up here, in Ontario, more correctly referred to as Anashnabe, which is a sub-tribe of both.

#82: Author: Guardian of Pravda, Location: Alabama

Posted: 9/27/2008, 1:24 pm
—

Sister Massively Opiated wrote

Guardian of Pravda wrote

Up here, in Ontario, more correctly referred to as Anashnabe, which is a sub-tribe of both.

I know. My Wife is from Elliot Lake. She is Anashnabe. Also called Anishnabeg, Anishinabe.
When we are up there we visit on the reservations. They are mad a hell down toward Sault Ste Marie since the new road went in.
The Algonquin language is derived from the Objiwe. Many think it is one language hardly knowing there are some 30 different variations of it just like any other language.
We will be up there in Nov for her Sisters wedding in SSM. First place my wife goes is Tim Hortons.
Hope is does not Snow.

#83: Author: Zampolit Blokhayev, Location: The People's Socialist Republic of the District of Columbia

Posted: 9/27/2008, 1:50 pm
—

Guardian of Pravda wrote

Ivan Betinov wrote

Quote

Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants.

Absolutely. Cullman is 60 miles north of me. Go there often. Fish Smith Lake and have many friends there. Usually go straight up 278 and through Holly Pond.

I'm the other Bama-ite in here. I grew up in Arab, about 25mi n.e. of Betinov's glorious commune of Cullman. Holy Pond! Damn. I haven't been there in almost 30 years. There used to be a little restaurant there with the most awesome fried catfish. Sadly, Arab is not what I would call a place where they "celebrate diversity". They are a few Hispanics and Asians living there. But, still ... no Blacks live on top of Brindlee Mtn. Not that I blame them for not wanting to. Hell, I'm a WEM and I don't want to live there.

#84: Author: Guardian of Pravda, Location: Alabama

Posted: 9/27/2008, 2:32 pm
—
Went through Arab the other day coming back from Huntsville. Went down 231 south through Morgan Point Eddy and past Egypt on my west side.
Only in Alabama can you visit all the Countries w/o ever leaving the State.
Will you be following the Game today.
BTW there is still an very nice Catfish Restaurant there. you are not referring to Gannon's Corner or Pepper's Cafe or Three Guys Grill are you?
There is also Granny's Home Brew. Arab is modernizing in the Downtown section but it's still rural toward the outskirts.

#85: Author: Sister Massively Opiated, Location: The Peoples' Socialist Republic of Kanadistan

Posted: 9/27/2008, 2:54 pm
—
s'okay... there's a town in Ontario called Swastika...

#86: Author: Guardian of Pravda, Location: Alabama

Posted: 9/27/2008, 3:03 pm
—

Sister Massively Opiated wrote

s'okay... there's a town in Ontario called Swastika...

I missed that one. South or North of Sudbury?

#87: Author: Sister Massively Opiated, Location: The Peoples' Socialist Republic of Kanadistan

Posted: 9/27/2008, 6:28 pm
    —
Y'know... I have absolutely no idea... I'll have to look 'er up... I just know it exists... but I'll have a look...

Re: Anashnabe... I still get confused by the whole Anashnabe/Ojibwa or Ojibwe and Iroquois interrelation, because it is an interrelation.  I have an Anashnabe friend who is Ojibwa and I know Ojibwa who are Iroquois, and Anashhabe who are Iroquois...

And there are Hand and Cree in Saskatchewan who are related to the Lakota Sioux on Rosebud, which I think are Sicangu Lakota... especially the Cree in southern Saskatchewan (from "Wascana"... a basterdization of Oskana ka-asateki or, "the bones that are piled together" because Regina is for all intents and purposes where they took Buffalo bones as a cemetery because they revered the Buffalo... where Regina's August civic holiday, "Pile'o'bones Day" day comes from... )

I have no idea how I know all this shit... I'm Jewish and my family came from Russia around 1900... to Winnipeg and around Manitoba and then to Saskatchewan and eventually all over western Canada...  But when I lived in Vancouver I knew a lot of Haida stuff... I guess you just pick it up if you're around it and I had a lot of first nations friends in Regina... my folks sort of looked after a lot of my friends who came from broken homes and a lot of them had parents who'd come from reserves and weren't in great shape and ended up in foster homes... which often meant they ended up at our house.  We seem to have a habit of collecting people wherever we live... and then we kill them and eat them... ... .. ..  I'm joking... we just kill the babies and use their blood to make "Matzo" at Passover... it's true... I read it in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.... naw... I'm joking... I used to be a vegetarian and my brother still is, but my boyfriend's a cannibal... no... actually he's Argentinean... sorry... we just watched a documentary on the history of the "blood lie" and the Protocols... it was interesting... I guess that stuck in my head too...

Anyway... we don't eat people or kill babies but I did have a lot of first nations friends growing up in Regina.

Okay... Swastika is right by Kirkland lake... northeast...

#88: Author: Sister Massively Opiated, Location: The Peoples' Socialist Republic of Kanadistan

Posted: 9/27/2008, 6:32 pm
—
Hey... where's our buddy Jack?... Did he really take off?... I was kinda looking forward to 'hearing' his answer... I might have learned something...

#89: Author: Guardian of Pravda, Location: Alabama

Posted: 9/27/2008, 6:49 pm
—
Way North of Sudbury but South of Timmins and close to Quebec. Traveled that road more than a few times. Got to watch for it next time.
Relation to the LS are common now, not common back a hundred or so years ago.
It's all First Nation.
To add to the confusion the Wynadotte and Huron are the same people with different names.
Many are more than interrelated they are related as they come from the same band just went in different directions. Trying to separate them is a waste of time. The only separation is Tribal Pride and standing.
I am part of the Iroquois Confederacy which is the Five Nations. We are the Erielhonan or Cougar People of the Black Adder people (Iroquois).

Last edited by Guardian of Pravda on 9/27/2008, 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

#90: Author: Guardian of Pravda, Location: Alabama

Posted: 9/27/2008, 6:50 pm
—

Sister Massively Opiated wrote

Hey... where's our buddy Jack?... Did he really take off?... I was kinda looking forward to 'hearing' his answer... I might have learned something...

Mayhap he is pondering.

#91: Author: Sister Massively Opiated, Location: The Peoples' Socialist Republic of Kanadistan

Posted: 9/27/2008, 8:03 pm
—

Guardian of Pravda wrote

I am part of the Iroquois Confederacy which is the Five Nations. We are the Erielhonan or Cougar People of the Black Adder people (Iroquois).

Wait... so what are the six nations of the Six Nations Reserve near Brantford?

#92: Author: Zampolit Blokhayev, Location: The People's Socialist Republic of the District of Columbia

Posted: 9/27/2008, 8:26 pm
—

Guardian of Pravda wrote

Went through Arab the other day coming back from Huntsville. Went down 231 south through Morgan Point Eddy and past Egypt on my west side.
Only in Alabama can you visit all the Countries w/o ever leaving the State.
Will you be following the Game today.
BTW there is still an very nice Catfish Restaurant there. you are not referring to Gannon's Corner or Pepper's Cafe or Three Guys Grill are you?
There is also Granny's Home Brew. Arab is modernizing in the Downtown section but it's still rural toward the outskirts.

Did you pass though Hog Jaw, too? Very Happy

(I swear to Lenin, yawl!!! There is a tiny "community" outside of Arab called Hog Jaw.)

Yes Sir! I am watchin' the game now. At halftime Bama 31, GA 0. WOOOOOOT!!!!! ROLL TIDE!!! Let's see if they can hold that.

I am also keeping an eye on my secondary college team too. Virginia Tech.

I think it was Gannon's Corner. It was 30 years ago so I do not remember for sure. But the name Gannon's seems to come to mind.

Three Guys Grill is newer. There is one in Arab. As a matter of fact 3 guys from Arab started it. One of them, I went to school with my whole life.

--

#93: Author: Sheik Abu Moham, Location: The Farthest Mosque

Posted: 9/27/2008, 8:35 pm
    —
CHARACTER OFF!

Now I'm hearing my Comrades offer PC concessions. (out of character?).

habeas corpus?    Fuck You!!!!!!  Your living in a fairy tale.

The problem with globalization/multiculturalism is, WE HAVE ISLAM!

Islam offers NO habeas corpus.  NONE in the slightest.

Yet we allow them to TAKE US.  Our fucking politicians democrat or republican,... and our media, have no idea of what the West (FREEDOM) is up against. They can't face the facts.  Have NOT read the Quran or the Hadith.   The FACT is,... Islam's tenet is to dominate.  ALL Muslims are taught to harass and terrorize the unbeliever (you and me) to submit to Islam,  pay jizya (a protection tax) or be killed.


What part of kill do you not understand?

The reason for nearly every problem we have today whether personal safety, financial security, freedom of speech, equal rights, etc. is Islam.  The fuckin Arabs own Bush and US by association.

I would suggest you great scholars of history pick up the Quran and read it.  This doctrine is pounded into each and every Muslim each and every day.

Stuff Like This............................................
Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."
Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."
Qur'an:8:65 "O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding."
Qur'an:9:123 "Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you."
Qur'an:47:4 "When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah's Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam."
Ishaq:578 "Crushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy. Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down. We conquered bearing the Prophet's fluttering war banner. Our cavalry was submerged in rising dust, and our spears quivered, but by us the Prophet gained victory."
Qur'an:61:4 "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His Cause."

The Quran and Hadith are filled with this verbiage.

Muslims believe the written Quran is Allah's word, delivered through Muhammad.  Never to be criticized.  They believe , Muhammad is the perfect man.

FACT;  Muhammad had multiple wives,(some under 10 years old) many sex slaves, decapitated hundreds of men with his own hand.

This is just a snippet of what's in the hate filled doctrine of the Quran.  You Comrades are smart guys.  Take a minute of your life to read this hate filled war doctrine written by a psychopathic narcissistic thug.  A self proclaimed prophet.

Then consider the Ummah and how it effects World Economics.  They will destroy capitalism if we just talk.

Alluha Akbar

Last edited by Sheik Abu Moham on 9/29/2008, 9:06 am; edited 6 times in total

#94: Author: Guardian of Pravda, Location: Alabama

Posted: 9/27/2008, 8:42 pm
—

Sister Massively Opiated wrote

Guardian of Pravda wrote

I am part of the Iroquois Confederacy which is the Five Nations. We are the Erielhonan or Cougar People of the Black Adder people (Iroquois).

Wait... so what are the six nations of the Six Nations Reserve near Brantford?

Also the five Nations one and the same. We are the oldest participatory Democracy in history. When the first five formed which were Mohawks, Oneidas, Onondagas, Cayugas, and Senecas they were called the Five Nations. The Tuscaroras came later, were added in, and thus the Six Nations but those of us that were in the original five still refer to it as the Five nations.
As an aside, we declared war on the Germans at the same time as America but we never accepted their surrender. We are still at War with them.

Last edited by Guardian of Pravda on 9/27/2008, 8:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

#95: Author: Guardian of Pravda, Location: Alabama

Posted: 9/27/2008, 8:50 pm
—

Zampolit Blokhayev wrote

Guardian of Pravda wrote

Did you pass though Hog Jaw, too? Very Happy

Oh yeah. Went through Hog Jaw which still has it's little sign hanging proudly next to the junked 47 Chevy.

Gannons is the oldest resturant around there so I think that is it. It's down home comfy and the service is good as is the food. The Three Guys is I believe down by the Mall.
It's still rural once you leave Huntsville and get past Hobbs Island Road. Once you hit Oleander your traveling back in time straight down Brindlee Mtn Pkwy.
You want funny places my own Native Georgia has Possum Snout also known as Tallapoosa.

#96: Author: Guardian of Pravda, Location: Alabama

Posted: 9/27/2008, 8:52 pm
—

Sheik Abu Moham wrote

CHARACTER OFF!

Now I'm hearing my Comrades offer PC concessions. (out of character?).

habeas corpus?    Fuck You!!!!!!  Your living in a fairy tale.

The problem with globalization/multiculturalism is, WE HAVE ISLAM!

Islam offers NO habeas corpus.  NONE in the slightest.

Yet we allow them to TAKE US.  Our fucking politicians democratic or republican,... and our media, have no idea of what the West (FREEDOM) is up against. They can't face the facts.  Have NOT read the Quran or the Hadith.   The FACT is,... Islam's tenet is to dominate.  ALL Muslims are taught to harass and terrorize the unbeliever (you and me) to submit to Islam,  pay jizya (a protection tax) or be killed.  What part of kill do you not understand?

The reason for nearly every problem we have today whether personal safety, financial security, freedom of speech, equal rights, etc. is Islam.  The fuckin Arabs own Bush and US by association.

I would suggest you great scholars of history pick up the Quran and read it.  This doctrine is pounded into each and every Muslim each and every day.

Stuff Like This............................................
Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."
Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."
Qur'an:8:65 "O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding."
Qur'an:9:123 "Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you."
Qur'an:47:4 "When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah's Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam."
Ishaq:578 "Crushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy. Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down. We conquered bearing the Prophet's fluttering war banner. Our cavalry was submerged in rising dust, and our spears quivered, but by us the Prophet gained victory."
Qur'an:61:4 "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His Cause."

The Quran and Hadith are filled with this verbiage.

Muslims believe the written Quran is Allah's word, delivered through Muhammad.  Never to be criticized.  They believe , Muhammad is the perfect man.

FACT;  Muhammad had multiple wives,(some under 10 years old) many sex slaves, decapitated hundreds of men with his own hand.

This is just a snippet of what's in the hate filled doctrine of the Quran.  You Comrades are smart guys.  Take a minute of your life to read this hate filled war doctrine written by a psychopathic narcissistic thug.  A self proclaimed prophet.

Then consider the Ummah and how it effects World Economics.  They will destroy capitalism if we just talk.

Alluha Akbar

The Monkees said it best for me. I'm a Believer.

#97: Author: Sister Massively Opiated, Location: The Peoples' Socialist Republic of Kanadistan

Posted: 9/27/2008, 11:14 pm
—
Yes yes... but can we just stop pissing on people for a while... I'm the first one to say, "Give pees a chance," but this is getting outta hand... and I'm the one who has to clean it up...

#98: Author: Sister Massively Opiated, Location: The Peoples' Socialist Republic of Kanadistan

Posted: 9/27/2008, 11:16 pm
—

Guardian of Pravda wrote

Sister Massively Opiated wrote

Guardian of Pravda wrote

I am part of the Iroquois Confederacy which is the Five Nations. We are the Erielhonan or Cougar People of the Black Adder people (Iroquois).

Wait... so what are the six nations of the Six Nations Reserve near Brantford?

I beg to differ... I believe that would be the former residents of Masada, although their final vote was to kill themselves...

... joking...

#99: Author: traci, Location: earth

Posted: 9/28/2008, 12:44 am
—
Hello, my glorious komrads,

[karrakter off]

As an elephant living in a donkey parade (from Minnesota), I am so grateful for the Peoples' Cube....and am a long-time lurker/fourth-time poster. Thank you for the Cube. Let's keep it rolling!!!

Love, traci aka Lady Pol Pot Pie

#100: Author: Commissar Theocritus, Location: Texas

Posted: 9/28/2008, 1:33 am
—
<off>Welcome, traci. It's an odd mix here, with some conservatives or conservative/libertarians or some conservative/libertarian/Randites (like me). Lots of ex-military, Sister is a Canadian Jew, I'm a Texan, and gay.</off>

JB wrote

ut the reason why democratic societies generally do think that habeas corpus is very, very good is that it provides recourse to people who have been unjustly imprisoned, and the Bush Administration’s post-9/11 detention policies provide a good example of why unjust imprisonment should be a concern. The vast majority of Guantanamo Bay prisoners were apprehended by non-U.S. forces, many of which collected bounties for handing the prisoners over.

This is misdirection, on the line of damning companies for making a profit. There's much to be said on the condemnation of the profit motive, for without that, the only control is chivvying regulation, but that's for another day.

Calling it "unjust imprisonment" has been dealt with before. I will say however, that the British detainees have been offered to Britain--won't you please take them, we're tired of them? And the Brits said, no no no, you're doing fine, we don't want them but we don't want them out either. And they then snipe at us for taking really bad people out of the picture.

There is something viscerally pleasing about these Charles Bronson movies in which he shoots muggers which the law won't touch. Of course the presumption is that he'll do it right and shoot only the muggers. But one must ask what, exactly, is the point? Making sure that all the accounting laws of imprisonment are followed or that evil people are kept off the streets? These jihadi were not pool boys snatched up randomly--they were gotten by serious people in bad places while they were doing bad things. It is a mistake to believe that all people are equally innocent no matter where they were.

Would it make sense to arrest someone found at the scene of a murder with a bloody knife in his hand? Would it make sense to free that person found at the scene of a murder if he hadn't had his Miranda rights? If he's not an American citizen, who was apprehended on foreign soil?

One of the things that amazes me is the left's projection of American values on the rest of the world. A lot of it is, I think, meant well, but the world just isn't like that and it's not a serious option. I heard an interview with one of the detainees at Gitmo who had been given an artificial leg by the Americans. He was grateful for that but still hated the Great Satan and said that he planned, if released, to go back to doing what he was doing before, which is trying to kill us. Claiming that it is a violation of his "rights" to hold him because of some made-up legal shenanigans (see above) is short-sighted and is precisely the sort of attitude which plays into the hands of people who would destroy us.

Ask yourself this. Is the US entitled to protect her interests? That is what we're doing and before you complain about their conditions, they're treated better than they ever have been before. And they get to keep their heads, unlike Daniel Pearl.

To go perhaps a bit further on Sister's point about regulations. The law exists, in theory, to regulate the affairs of men justly. And, as Sister states, these days it's in flux because technology, and events, have outstripped it. Even property law (in Texas) is behind-hand. But the bottom line of the very reason for law is that justice.

Law is a tool; it is not god. It exists to serve people and not the other way around. A common leftist confusion is the politicization of everything--natural disasters, even natural history. Which entirely misses the point.

And the point is the life and liberty of people, and not the subjugation of people to some legal god.

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